About That Song: Jesse Norell of Riffin’ Griffin
About That Song #86
In our special series, singer-songwriter Sarah Morris interviews artists about the songs that shaped them.
Hi! I’m Sarah Morris. I’m wildly in love with songs and the people who write them. There have been a few songs in my life that have been total gamechangers—songs that made me want to be a songwriter and songs I’ve written that made me feel like I am a songwriter. About That Song is a space where I can learn more about those pivotal songs in other writers’ lives.
For our 86th edition, I had a fantastic conversation about songwriting with Jesse Norrell, who told me about influential songs in his life and tracks from his band’s most recent EP.
Jesse Norell. Photo credit: Laurel Goulson.
Sarah: Hi Jesse Norell, aka lead singer and songwriter for Riffin’ Griffin—a Minneapolis band making “arena rock for kids”! Recently the band released their second album, a 5-song EP called Drawing the Silver Lining. Additionally, you've had a summer packed with shows all over the metro area, leading up to two sets at next week’s Kidsfest at Hilde Performance Center.
The EP has wonderful, ambitious goals, tackling themes such as growth mindset, allyship, inclusion, self-acceptance, and emotional regulation. It encourages kids that they can “do more than just SEE the positives in difficult situations, but they can CREATE the positives themselves.” At the same time, you're reaching for melodies that stick with the listener and that sense of energy and empowerment you feel when listening to rock and roll.
As summer winds to a close, and families prepare for back-to-school, it feels like a perfect time to chat with you, Jesse, all about the songs that brought you to Riffin’ Griffin! For starters, do you remember the song you heard that made you want to be a songwriter? Tell us about that song.
Jesse: I think it was a batch of songs for me. I recently heard Noah Gundersen answer this question with “Round Here” by Counting Crows and that might be mine as well. Lyrically, that song was playing chess when a lot of the other songs I was hearing were playing checkers. I was into poetry before songwriting, and Adam Duritz was melding the two in a way I hadn't heard before.
Sarah: OOH! That is a song that I am so familiar with as a “it’s on the radio, I kind of know it” but I’ve never LISTENED listened to it. I’m gonna go fix that!
Jesse: Another one would be “Something's Always Wrong” by Toad the Wet Sprocket. I loved the attention to detail, the harmonies, the way the chorus split into two melodies, the long outro, the feeling that it was a musical journey that was not in a particular rush to reach its destination. But most of all, I loved how it interacted with emotions—particularly sadness. Growing up in a church setting we didn’t usually dive deep into grief the way these songs did and I found it very therapeutic.
Honorable mentions to “Smells Like Teen Spirit” (Nirvana) and “Freedom” (Rage Against the Machine). Hearing those songs for the first time as a kid was like being struck by lightning.
Sarah: You just started a pretty fantastic playlist for me that I’m titling “songs from your youth in need of a revisit.” Once you began writing, did you feel like a writer immediately? It took me a few years of writing before I believed it myself—was there a song that gave you that “a-HA! I AM a songwriter!” moment? Tell us about that song.
Jesse: I think I’ve always felt like a songwriter. Nobody told me I couldn’t do it. When I knew two guitar chords, I wrote a two-chord song. When I learned a third chord I wrote a three-chord song. I wrote to challenge myself rather than drilling exercises. Songwriting was baked into the process. Then I heard Green Day and learning to slide one chord shape up and down the neck felt like a cheat code. It allowed me to focus on rhythmic precision and helped me understand that I didn’t need to be a genius to write a great song.
I have often struggled with feeling like I was good enough at singing or guitar (even after I started teaching guitar), but songwriting always felt like breathing. Whatever came out, good or bad, was just a part of myself that would naturally happen in the course of time.
Sarah: I am cheering your answer incredibly hard. Yes! “Know two chords? Write a two chord song!” It’s a joy to have songwriting feel like a natural extension of your being, and maybe then, there’s less time spent judging the output and more time enjoying the process?
Before Riffin’ Griffin, you performed under your own name, releasing the 2022 album, Aorta Borealis, which begins with the gorgeous “What To Tell You”—what can you tell us about that song?
Jesse: I could write a novel in response to this question … I’ll try my best not to! I took a 15-year break from writing songs and releasing albums and this was the song that got me started again. I wrote it about the day my daughter was born and the moment we found out she had Down syndrome and a significant heart defect. I’ve played this live a few times and inevitably somebody’s crying by the end… and not just me either.
After two open-heart surgeries in three years (each with a six-month recovery), my daughter started to get healthy and our family began exiting a long season of crisis and trauma. I wanted to tell the rest of the story, so “What to Tell You” became track one of Aorta Borealis and the other 11 songs helped give the full picture, including the joy of having a healthy kid with Down syndrome. I hope people still check out that record. Is it corny to call it my life’s work?
While writing Aorta Borealis, I heard “Chinese Satellite” by Phoebe Bridgers (incredible song!) and her songs helped remind me that specific lyrics can help people connect. Lyrics don’t have to be vague to have the listener be invested in the musical story being told.
Riffin’ Griffin. Photo credit: Laurel Goulson.
Sarah: First off, thank you so much for sharing your story, for your daughter’s story. To my ears, it sounds like love to call it your life’s work. Secondly, in terms of specificity versus vague lyricism—I was just having this conversation with a co-writer! I’m a huge fan of people like John Prine, Jason Isbell, Lori McKenna—I feel like their songs often have extremely specific details that are nowhere near my life’s story, but somehow it is that sense of detail that leads to me having such a deep sense of relation to the music.
I’m always curious what leads a songwriter to pivot to releasing music under a moniker or within the context of a band. Was there a song that you wrote where you said, “OH! This is not Jesse Norell so much as it’s Riffin’ Griffin!”?
Jesse: “Jesse Norell” usually sounds like a full band and my name by itself was not helping people know if they would like the music. I wondered if changing genres (to children’s music) and styles (to fun, heavy, energetic, rock) would be served well by continuing under my name. As many musicians know, you need a good “elevator pitch” but sometimes you don’t even get that much attention from someone given how many things are constantly pulling at their attention. So telling a portion of your story with just your name can be helpful. “Riffin’ Griffin” gives people the mental image of a mythological creature shredding on a guitar, and for some listeners that will be enough to know if they should check it out or not.
The first song that felt like a totally different ballgame from my previous music was “Running Around (in a Circle).” During lockdown, I would entertain my kids by driving a remote control car around the couch. They would chase it and we would sing this melody. We did that day after day and it had the double meaning for me that my life was also going infinitely in circles. Then I made it into an uptempo rocker that sounded like if the Killers and the Foo Fighters had a toddler.
Sarah: Perfect. (PS: During lockdown, our version of this was our tween doing laps in the living room on a hoverboard.) “I hope you choose kindness.” You sing this wish on the lead track on the new EP. The lyric reads like an encouraging letter directly to your child, while the melody is the exact-kind-of-catchy that ensures the song stays with the listener, in moments when you might need that reminder. Tell us about that song.
Jesse: Part of the role of a songwriter is to channel negativity into something helpful, useful, or insightful. When I wrote that song I was feeling like the adults in America were making a lot of poor choices. When we feel like a lost cause, the hope lies in the next generation not repeating our mistakes. So I wrote the opening lyric “When you grow up, I hope…” and just tried to fill in the blanks. In a country that has a “me first” attitude, being kind is a form of protest and rebellion … and that’s SO PUNK ROCK. “When it seems hate will overwhelm, don’t be compliant … even when the world isn’t kind to you, choose kindness.” If we can’t all get on board with that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Sarah: With the last song, “Silver Linings,” you explore emotional regulation, with lyrics such as “When your body sends a signal, stomachs that growl, heart rate a million miles an hour, ignoring it doesn’t help you.” Then you offer practical solutions: “breathe in and out.” I’m a parent, and I also spent time teaching early childhood music, so I have been so grateful for songs like these. Can you tell us about that song?
Jesse: A number of the songs on Drawing the Silver Lining are messages that I wish someone would’ve given me as a kid. In this song, the main message is that all emotions are ok … even the ones that often make us feel bad inside like anger and sadness. We try to push down those feelings like trying to cage the wobbly man at the car dealership and he just keeps popping back out.
The song starts with the line “All good things must come to an end sometimes, and this is one of those times.” I wanted the listener to put themselves in a headspace to think about something good ending … anything from leaving a carnival to Grandma passing away. And then start to think about strategies to deal with all of the inevitable emotions without letting them cause a meltdown.
Kid problems and adult problems aren’t all that different. Transitions are hard. Self-awareness takes work. If we don’t plan ahead and practice using the tools we need to get through difficulties, somebody could get hurt. We don’t want our kids to grow into adults who can’t deal with their stuff either.
Sarah: Jesse, thank you so very much for chatting with me About That Song. Thank you for making music that brings these truly important topics to life in a way that invites singing along. Enjoy the rest of your summer!
Riffin’ Griffin has a couple more shows this summer, and they’re free. Come check them out. You don’t even need to bring kids!
Listen to “Kindness”
Drawing The Silver Lining Album Credits
Jesse Norell - vocals and guitars (all songs), bass (tracks 1, 2, 4 and 5)
Ish Mensah - drums (tracks 1, 2, 4, and 5)
Andrew Goulson - drums (track 3)
Matt Call - bass (track 3)
Josh Grinolds - lead guitar (track 3)
Jasper Nephew - lead guitar (track 2)
Wesley Berger - mixing and mastering (all songs)
Corby Ortman - artwork (design and layout)
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Sarah Morris. Photo credit: Tom Smouse.
Sarah Morris is a superfan of songs and the people who write them, and a believer that certain songs can change your life. A singer-songwriter / mama / bread maker / coffee drinker who recently released her fifth album of original material, she’s been known to joyfully sing with people in her Big Green Bathroom.
